tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post8885832792328887924..comments2023-12-23T21:59:20.634-08:00Comments on The Ad Contrarian: Digital Clown Act In Big TroubleBOB HOFFMANhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05158827977385952634noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-53267871333213026292014-11-06T11:56:57.788-08:002014-11-06T11:56:57.788-08:00Blogspot is free and therefore stuffs his blog wit...Blogspot is free and therefore stuffs his blog with ads. Does not benefit Bob at all other than free platform to publish.johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-34320534921258967002014-11-05T08:02:19.214-08:002014-11-05T08:02:19.214-08:00totally agree. I think that programmatic is the pr...totally agree. I think that programmatic is the problem, not the Internet.Junoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-90678440636668874222014-11-04T09:26:08.879-08:002014-11-04T09:26:08.879-08:00Actually brand marketers regularly and continually...Actually brand marketers regularly and continually pump money into mediums or outlets that used to work, that they think or have been told statistically should be working, that they have been told will eventually work, that competition is pumping money into and so this brand marketer does as well...<br />When the acknowledged and now accepted redemption rate on in-print coupons is 3%, you have the cajones to bring this up, JasonFalls? 3%? 85% fraud or fake in digital? If that is all tv and radio generates, they are escorted out of the building... permanently! Yet the bar or threshold for coupon outlets and now digital are so low, expectations are so minimal that billions are pulled from marketing budgets to support them.<br />'Not as efficient as it could be' is the understatement of all time. <br />It's stupid on a sandwich. Everything else is held to a black and white standard, to real measurement. And it's gray matter that should determine the outcome - not hopey-feely cool technology.yilleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-53095139607658794172014-11-01T19:28:29.053-07:002014-11-01T19:28:29.053-07:00So, I have a digital media campaign, with a robot ...So, I have a digital media campaign, with a robot audience. <br />The next step is to automate my buying too, by going 'programmatic'.<br />So the whole thing is now untouched by human brain.<br /><br />I have a question: if we're cutting out all the middlemen, wouldn't it be simpler for me just to wire my entire digital media budget directly to your numbered account in the Caymans?Shanghai61noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-52917808831289141962014-11-01T18:47:59.024-07:002014-11-01T18:47:59.024-07:00That's what I thought. Could be something buil...That's what I thought. Could be something built in to the blog template maybe?davisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-75782787227267382062014-11-01T13:26:59.987-07:002014-11-01T13:26:59.987-07:00I most certainly do notI most certainly do notbob hoffmanhttp://adcontrarian.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-32233337291811593752014-11-01T11:50:39.789-07:002014-11-01T11:50:39.789-07:00Yet you're selling ad space on your website......Yet you're selling ad space on your website...davisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-56180613906053798262014-10-31T11:00:03.112-07:002014-10-31T11:00:03.112-07:00Good point, Neil. View-through is the same scam be...Good point, Neil. View-through is the same scam being sold to Kraft, et. al. I personally refuse to look at view-through metrics.Jay Allennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-65226118212738788342014-10-31T05:00:42.983-07:002014-10-31T05:00:42.983-07:00Look, there goes the emperor! By golly, he's m...Look, there goes the emperor! By golly, he's mighty underclothed considering the weather...Cecil B. DeMillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-54300933280596836732014-10-30T20:35:59.144-07:002014-10-30T20:35:59.144-07:00Let me get this straight...
Kraft just came in an...Let me get this straight...<br /><br />Kraft just came in and said: we have a media channel where we can effectively identify what doesn't work for us (not viewable, probably fraudulent, or don't know) and only buy what does. We can spend close to 36 millions USD a year doing that filtering and this doesn't impact our ratecard much. <br /><br />And everyone is pissing their pants because this is proof this channel is dead?<br /><br />If the headline was "85% of what we buy turned out to be fraudulent and we have no way of avoiding them" I'd be with the angry people in this thread, but this is NOT what this woman is saying.<br /><br />I plan traditional channels where things like a "post buy" don't exist because well, you just can't say anything other than "it was printed" or "it was put up on the street". Not a fucking clue if people flipped the page or looked up the wall (and in the world of magazine, there is huge over inflation of circulation numbers, in some extreme cases it's a 100 to 1 ratio). Digital viewability / fraud needs to be sorted. It's essential. But fuck let's not throw the baby with the bathwater here, because in the world of digital we can actually do something about it.LeShannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-5562353478913202742014-10-30T20:10:32.918-07:002014-10-30T20:10:32.918-07:00First of all I have seen digital work - at least b...First of all I have seen digital work - at least based on tracking and MMM results, both for impact on brand and sales. I have also seen it do absolutely nothing. It depends on the category, the creative, the formats bought etc. Whether it works on its own is another debate, but it can fulfill a few business objectives, especially in between bursts considering most brands don't have the budget to have always-on TV budget. Second of all as much as I like Bob I disagree with online being just the yellow pages. Some of it (search and e-commerce in particular) is, but not all of it. At the end of the day a great creative idea can resonate, whether in traditional or digital media. I have even see small mobile display banners do REALLY well for high end products. <br /><br /><br />I'm a strategist for a media agency, so I'm not going to be one of these who pretends TV is losing, it's not. But personally I never watch TV (not plugged in), and never open a printed magazine/newspaper (I only read digital versions). If you want to reach me, you better have an online strategy or some sort of out of home format. I'm still an exception, but for how long? If digital is able to reach a lot of people (and it is) the question is not whether digital is effective but how can we make that channel effective.<br /><br /><br />NB: Bob left out the part of the interview where the Kraft lady stated that the cost effectiveness was still acceptable despite the issues they found.LeShannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-8680828980151945552014-10-30T19:19:33.517-07:002014-10-30T19:19:33.517-07:00Hi George, don't forget that your favourite Fr...Hi George, don't forget that your favourite French man, Maurice, not content with blowing $100 million on his aborted penis enlargement procedure with Omnicom, is now pumping even more money into turning Publicis Groupe into a digital giant.Conornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-14207848236572187562014-10-30T11:01:54.193-07:002014-10-30T11:01:54.193-07:00It works, if it's in the right place for the r...It works, if it's in the right place for the right brand. Which doesn't have to be digital. I think what this suggests is that programmatic buying using ad networks where buyers don't really know where a lot of their money is going, could be not long for this world. But that might be a good thing for agencies because their knowledge of the actual consumer and the real value of an "impression" will again be something worth paying for.BrendaKilgournoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-15303075765006474232014-10-30T10:55:33.817-07:002014-10-30T10:55:33.817-07:00Big difference between measurement of TV (and othe...Big difference between measurement of TV (and other offline media) and online is that it's transparently managed by third party research cos to industry standards. Is it the absolute truth? No. In the UK BARB estimates it misses 6% of viewing - but that's fine for a currency. Brands invest because it works, as long as the analysis is done properly. The really scary thing about some online ads (we shouldn't treat it all the same) is not the corruption of exposure metrics but culture of dodgy ROI using the last click mentality. And this is driven by the silos in companies where the marketing director often has no control over programmatic incl brand-damaging re targeting. This is managed within online trading or acquisition ie people with only a short-term focus.Tess_Alpsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-81069715065732717392014-10-30T09:13:50.876-07:002014-10-30T09:13:50.876-07:00Here's what i don't understand. It all com...Here's what i don't understand. It all comes down to effectiveness. Please show me one example of a company that ONLY used on-line advertising to succeed. And NOT for some high-tech device that's ordinarily investigated on-line. i mean for a regular product or service. Because in my experience,<br />there are no on-line success stories. I have--at clients' requests--diverted good money to on-line buys, and have seen no evidence it works. Basically, on-line is kinda the new Yellow Pages. It's where folks go AFTER they've been sold, not before.Stephen Eichenbaumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-66346863518059175942014-10-30T08:31:05.503-07:002014-10-30T08:31:05.503-07:00Ecommerce guys getting a measurable return isn'...Ecommerce guys getting a measurable return isn't quite the rosy picture that it keeps being painted either. It would be fine if display ads were assessed like search - on a click through to a sale - but they're not, because nobody clicks on display ads.<br /><br /><br />Display is routinely assessed on 'view-through'. I.e. you saw an ad and then made a purchase, so the ad gets the credit. If you're unscrupulous, the game becomes how many people's PC's can you expose to ads? It doesn't matter whether the user actually *saw* the ad, as long as the PC loads it at some point - legitimately or not - and gets cookied.<br /><br /><br />Splurge ads all over the internet and chances are, a load of the people turning up to buy will have "seen" them. It doesn't mean they're causing anything to happen.Neil Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-72548236690696808712014-10-30T08:14:13.710-07:002014-10-30T08:14:13.710-07:00Digital advertising is dead! There. I said it.Digital advertising is dead! There. I said it.Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-82924676421697465352014-10-30T07:59:10.794-07:002014-10-30T07:59:10.794-07:00Bob...
It takes us old geezers to see that the wor...Bob...<br />It takes us old geezers to see that the world really is black & white... Why am I not surprised that Jason Falls describes himself as a "Digital Strategist." Nuff said. I have my take on this fiasco on today's "AdScam" As I point out, the Poisoned Dwarf has spent uber-millions buying up every digital agency in sight for WPP. Never forget, the little fucker said we are no longer "Mad Men" we are now "Math Men." I guess Kraft just peed in his Cheerios!<br />Cheers/George "AdScam" ParkerGeorge Parkerhttp://www.adscam.typepad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-85986955007247262932014-10-30T07:00:38.138-07:002014-10-30T07:00:38.138-07:00Ecommerce guys get a measurable return and use sal...Ecommerce guys get a measurable return and use sales as the KPI to analyze results. However, Kraft is a brand advertiser. They measure things like reach and impressions that can be faked easily. This is the problem. <br /><br />Note that this is specific to banner ads, which have never performed well for ecommerce plays. Some digital marketing does work: email, paid search, etc. But banner ads were supposed to be the digital medium that "creates" demand, rather than just harvesting it. And they have never, ever done a remotely reasonable job of that.Jay Allennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-88110850743576192532014-10-30T06:54:20.337-07:002014-10-30T06:54:20.337-07:00Yeah, Jason. They're getting something - fake ...Yeah, Jason. They're getting something - fake clicks and fake reach.<br /><br />When someone who spends $35.9 million per year on online suddenly does a study and then rejects 75-85% of what's offered them, they must be just thrilled with what they're getting.<br /><br />Wake up, Jason.bob hoffmanhttp://adcontrarian.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-44660684282894697282014-10-30T06:25:20.333-07:002014-10-30T06:25:20.333-07:00Doesn't your argument assume that brands are s...Doesn't your argument assume that brands are spending that money without any measurable return? Because if they were getting return on the investment, then it would make sense for them to keep spending, right? I don't know many brand marketers in the last 5-10 years that have just poured money into something that wasn't working, at least to a degree.<br /><br /><br />Mind you, there is spam in the online advertising world. There's always someone trying to game the system or pad the stats. But if a company that spends $35.9 million per year on online advertising and has been doing so for a while is, in fact, spending that kind of money, it's not because they're stupid and have seen no return. No, their money is not as efficient as it could be, but if they weren't getting something, they wouldn't be there.<br /><br /><br />Hate to piss in your Cheerios, Bob, but maybe you should assume the world isn't black and white and more gray matter. ;-)JasonFallshttp://jasonfalls.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-5217795262327471312014-10-30T06:15:17.749-07:002014-10-30T06:15:17.749-07:00Advertising today brings to mind William Goldman&#...Advertising today brings to mind William Goldman's quote about the movie making business: "Nobody Knows Anything."Patrick Scullinhttp://asoy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-74686710720924255762014-10-30T04:28:52.877-07:002014-10-30T04:28:52.877-07:00And let's not get into the reality of TV ratin...And let's not get into the reality of TV ratings data. No one wants to go there.LuoAnLaunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-61574921579537107372014-10-30T04:02:49.798-07:002014-10-30T04:02:49.798-07:00And nobody seems to be asking the question of what...And nobody seems to be asking the question of what happens to the digital economy when all this advertising funding disappears?johndoddsnoreply@blogger.com