tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post3318683091216190805..comments2023-12-23T21:59:20.634-08:00Comments on The Ad Contrarian: Bulletin: Agency People Are Unhappy. BOB HOFFMANhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05158827977385952634noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-24507676962188278382014-09-29T02:56:51.206-07:002014-09-29T02:56:51.206-07:00Quite right, bloody autocorrect. My phone clearly ...Quite right, bloody autocorrect. My phone clearly doesn't recognise unnecessarily poncy titles.James Macleannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-27385813933990345392014-09-29T02:52:15.903-07:002014-09-29T02:52:15.903-07:00Er, shouldn't that be barista? Oh to make the ...Er, shouldn't that be barista? Oh to make the same as your barrister..marywnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-52684508474184618972014-09-26T14:47:32.777-07:002014-09-26T14:47:32.777-07:00Funny, the very thing advertising creatives though...Funny, the very thing advertising creatives thought they were/are a part of, turns out to be the opposite.<br /><br />From Wikipedia on the word "Agency"...<br /><br />"Structure and agency forms an enduring core debate in sociology. Essentially the same as in the Marxist<br /> conception, "agency" refers to the capacity of individuals to act <br />independently and to make their own free choices, whereas "structure" <br />refers to those factors (such as social class, but also religion, <br />gender, ethnicity, subculture, etc.) that seem to limit or influence the<br /> opportunities that individuals have."<br /><br />This is what happens when people have their heads shoved so far up their collective bums that they have no clue where they are at.<br /><br />What I'd like to know is, didn't people like Bob see this coming down the tube? And if they did, why wasn't something done to stop it?<br /><br />You'd think that the top advertising folks would have been able to put together a marketing campaign that could have successful stopped the activity within the industry that caused it to become what it is.<br /><br />It's really easy to point a finger... But never forget the three pointing back at you.BingoJoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-8134124171269159702014-09-26T14:13:00.475-07:002014-09-26T14:13:00.475-07:00Dear Bob,
Friend who attended recent conference sh...Dear Bob,<br />Friend who attended recent conference shared video of your discussion concerning internet marketing, the fraud of such marketing in many cases, etc. Just wanted to send your way a word of thanks. We constantly fight our clients who know the latest buzzwords, and know nothing more about marketing to increase sales. Thanks for debunking the most danger myth in marketing/advertising...the internet. Our success for clients proves you correct, we thank you for now sharing this important message with the business, marketing, and advertising world. <br />Thanks again!R Nicholsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-34756493061561414022014-09-26T12:25:47.449-07:002014-09-26T12:25:47.449-07:00Irrespective of the issue of industry consolidatio...Irrespective of the issue of industry consolidation, I have long struggled with the problem that so much of what we do is "judged" by people who are totally unqualified to do so. If they want to say afterward that an ad is ineffective because sales didn't increase, I am OK with that.<br /><br /><br />It's when they say, a priori, that they don't think sales will increase or that an ad will be effective, sometimes based on what their sister-in-law (who took an art course at junior college) thinks of it. This is more often the case with smaller clients, but I've seen it with larger ones too.<br /><br /><br />From what I hear, lawyers and doctors aren't supposed to have to deal with this sort of thing, but for advertising professionals, it's a continual issue. I wonder sometimes if George Lois didn't have it right when he threatened to jump out the window if the client didn't do it his way. (Or even whether he actually did that – or was just making up a good story.)Tim Orrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-28839255779611858112014-09-25T12:36:41.968-07:002014-09-25T12:36:41.968-07:00The fact that every category of business in this c...The fact that every category of business in this country has been consolidated so that four people can own everything hurts advertising.<br />We need things to be competitive to do good work, and have good clients.<br />There are fewer of THEM, too.Stephen Eichenbaumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-84080769229252442632014-09-25T12:24:34.814-07:002014-09-25T12:24:34.814-07:00I think the discontent has to do with the rise in ...I think the discontent has to do with the rise in importance of the internet, the need to try to quantify what is essentially the art of persuasion and the speed at which we can get things done/make changes due to technology. Want an image desaturated, done. Not sure want to see it over saturated, done. How about posterized?<br /><br /><br />Before, if you wanted to change a headline or an image it took a week at best. The fonts were often hand created, individual letters had to be cut and kerned by hand, pasted up, sent to the print shop, proofed, etc… You couldn't just change the entire layout in a few minutes and ship the ad like you can today.<br /><br /><br />It was a pain in the ass to make any changes. Consequently, we paid more attention to the idea. We were more thoughtful about strategy and positioning. And we appreciated the craft. <br /><br /><br />Now, any half-way decent designer can make any bad idea look good enough to test. So, nobody gives a shit except about optimizing ephemera – is a green button more effective than a blue button? Think about that question. It assumes that all ideas are equally persuasive, relevant, engaging and thought provoking. They ain't.<br /><br /><br />Nobody cares about the creative product so when you are constantly tilting at windmills it leads to unhappiness.shackattacknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-61976820058786933002014-09-25T11:24:50.354-07:002014-09-25T11:24:50.354-07:00The first time I worked for one of the big multina...The first time I worked for one of the big multinationals, it was a regional office, and the local president and ceo could do why almost anything, as long as revenue expectations where met. So, we had windows of opportunities to try and innovate.<br /><br /><br />The second time, it's in the US. The grey suits are everywhere. And there's apparently no cure. :(alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-34291829160104705712014-09-25T10:50:25.972-07:002014-09-25T10:50:25.972-07:00Superb discussion.
Let me suggest that expectat...Superb discussion. <br /><br /><br />Let me suggest that expectations multiply this problem dramatically. Despite consolidation, advertising training is driven with the mythology of the independent creative shop. And our young talent is encouraged to be as iconoclastic and independent as possible.<br /><br /><br />Then they hire into the mega-national "crank it out" agency...and reality doesn't fit what they were told to expect. Big requires bureaucracy. So they end up working as one more faceless creative in some nicely decorated "cool" area buried deep within the agency. <br /><br /><br />Can they have big impact? Never. Not for their clients (where the client machine demands 5,000 new creative executions per year & they create 2 of those). Nor a big impact on their agency where they are forced to be one of thousands.<br /><br /><br />The best fix isn't to change the education - but to change our business. The realistic fix might be for advertising training to begin to set expectations with courses like "How You Can Be Satisfied Even When Working Inside A Multi-National Agency".Doug Garnetthttp://dsgarnett.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-50392590929146773002014-09-25T09:31:00.245-07:002014-09-25T09:31:00.245-07:00My first two agency gigs (in the mid-to-late 80s) ...My first two agency gigs (in the mid-to-late 80s) involved a lot of unhappiness. While all the usual culprits were in play (including a bit of whiny creative's entitlement on my part), the real backbreakers involved money -- and a wholesale lack of honesty about the stuff on the part of the agencies. <br /><br /><br /><br />It's hard to be happy when you're working for people you don't trust. When it comes to money (and the promises made about it), many agencies are simply not trustworthy, and never have been, which is why I've mostly freelanced.<br /><br /><br /><br />As real pay rates have declined over the the last 2-3 decades, I can't imagine the problem has gotten any better.TCWriternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-26935066814606808872014-09-25T08:29:49.831-07:002014-09-25T08:29:49.831-07:00I definitely agree with the thrust of what you'...I definitely agree with the thrust of what you're saying. However I think the pay aspect is more than a mere symptom. As a relatively young creative I was shocked to discover that pay rates have been dropping dramatically in real terms since the 80's. A friend of mine was on the exact same day rate as I am now...in 1987! So much for inflation.<br /><br />Obviously this has a lot to do with the separation of media, hourly billing and financiers running agencies etc, but whatever the reasoning it explains why a lot of creatives feel undervalued. <br /><br />In the past struggling artists and writers would effectively be lured into the industry by the filthy lucre. They'd sell out. Nothing wrong with that, the Sistine Chapel was a commission. But now that the bottom has fallen out what are creatives actually selling out for? To tell their family and friends that they just did a fanfuckingtastic banner for Canesten, complete with gurning woman? At least in the past they could buy everyone a round at the bar.<br /><br />I think this also goes some way to explaining why the quality of creative has taken a hit, we simply can't attract the best talent anymore. Plus, the talent that is here couldn't give two fucks. Why should they bust their humps until the wee small hours for the same money their Barrister makes?<br /><br />I don't know if it's the same in the States, but there's something very wrong when the suits are taking home far more than the creatives.James Macleannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5249997465016074955.post-28526496278917874282014-09-25T06:32:10.579-07:002014-09-25T06:32:10.579-07:00Thanks for the excellent sum-up. What do you perso...Thanks for the excellent sum-up. What do you personally think will happen to the industry at large? More consolidation or rather new indy agencies taking a big bite out of the pie?Eliasnoreply@blogger.com